> This kind of categorization perhaps wouldn't fly in the States
I see this as a bit of a paradox in the States. There is always some discussion about how everyone should be treated as equal, yet your "race" (whatever that means in the age of genetics!) is recorded by the government, and minorities are tracked by employers even though this is absolutely not related with their skills. If i think too much about it, I'd call it madness.
It's not a paradox. We have a lot of discussion in the U.S. about how everyone should be treated equally as a response to our historical and continuing failure to treat people equally. We keep track of race as a way to monitor our progress on that front.
The problem the US has in this regard is the blunt, stupid way we do it. "Race" is an example.
I work at a consulting company with very competitive hiring. Many of my teammates are "African American" according to the standard US classification, but guess what? Most of them, although born and raised in the US, are the children of Nigerian immigrants.
A candid discussion with one of my co-workers on a recent business trip revealed his issue with this. He is a descendent of slaves, and has roots in Alabama and Georgia. The policies of correcting for slavery, Jim Crow, and its resulting consequences are benefiting people who, due to immigrating in the last 30 years, weren't affected by it. My company is getting credit, the universities who admit these students are getting credit, and none are actually addressing the true group of people who were historically forbidden the right to read, to work, to own land, or to get an education of any kind. He isn't at all angry at our wonderful Nigerian-American coworkers.... he just feels that these hamfisted measures could easily be adjusted to help the groups they were designed to.
Having a broad spectrum of people with different levels of melanin may be one indicator of diversity, but it can be a poor one. I have never, ever worked on a software team with another person who grew up in a trailer park or even has Appalachian roots. But its cool. Another white guy who grew up in Sunnyvale is going to be exactly the same as me, because we both have northern European ancestry. Problem solved.
One of the complicated things about race is that it has to do with not just how we see ourselves, but how others see us. A family of Nigerian immigrants might not feel the legacy of Jim Crow laws in the same way as a family descended from slaves, but racists will apply the same anti-black stereotypes to both groups.
"Race"? In France it is forbidden to ask or record the religion or color of skin. Thus, it is forbidden to make statistics about it. Of course it is not the same about people with a handicap.
By the way, in Germany, they don't track your race, but they ask you for your religion when you move there. And it's actually a trap ! If you answer that you have any, suddenly you'll see a religion tax (deducted from your salary every month) going to your religion of choice. In Germany is literally "pays" to be agnostic.
Yep, Kirchensteuer ... usually between 8% and 9% if you're member of a confession that collects tax. Many people leave the church because of that, but then try and get your son or daughter into one of the many christian nurseries or schools later, and you have a bit of a problem ...
Certain churches are 'Körperschaften des öffentlichen Rechts' as such they fall under state church law and get priviledges that historically were granted to the catholic and protestant church after they had lost their territorial holdings and financial independence in the 'Reichsdeputationshauptschluss' 1803.
I'm curious where you're from. In the US, the government being separate from religion is a pretty big deal so having taxes going to churches at all would seem strange.
The system in the US, for instance, isn't that non-believers fund churches with their tax money, it's that no one funds churches with tax money at all, members of the church donate directly to the church.
(Before someone comments, yes churches are often tax-exempt like other charities and non-profits, but that is different from actually receiving money from the government)
I'll try not to reach a Godwin point in saying this, but we don't really do that for discrimination but because we're traumatised of lists with people's religions on it. Saying the "race" word is a big no-no too. It's a cultural legacy rather than a real approach.
You know, that's actually a good point. I hadn't really considered the cultural context of that issue in France. Americans tend to be very German focused when thinking about it.
I guess the good news is that sometimes we find European politics about as baffling as I'm sure Europeans find American politics at times.
The employer can't discriminate in either direction based on that information (which is why it gets a special section of the application for that can get torn out).
But they do need to record the charecatristics of people who are applying, and people who are getting hired, so they can spot rascist managers, etc.
How many categories they have for ethnicity ? I'm asking because the whole concept of Race came from White anthropologists in the 18-19th century who wanted to demonstrate that the white man was above every other race around. So it seems very backward to use the same kind of criteria.
I have often been told "Can you please fill this form?" by French IT contractor companies and the subtitle was "Nationality - Age". The title was "Degree and name of the achool", which is just as discriminating after 7 years of experience. Marital status isn't really prompted.
DoB and marital status are not part of modern CVs. They are irrelevant cruft. The employer is legally not allowed to take them into consideration so there is no point in including them on your CV.
Are you still speaking about France or in general? Every guide I've seen to writing a French (and German) CV lists those items as more or less essential. [1][2][3] And even if they are not essential, or not legally required that doesn't mean leaving them off will not affect their decision [4]. However, maybe it really is not a problem. I honestly have no idea. Have you seen other articles saying to no longer include them?
[3] http://conseils-carriere.monster.ch/CV-et-lettres-de-motivat...
"Should I give detailed information about my marrital status?
Write whether you are single, married, widowed, or divorced. If you have children, only mention their age and sex, not their names."
[4] http://www.thelocal.de/20130131/47649
"Unlike most English resumes, German CVs always include a passport-style professional photo in the upper right-hand corner - a detail advisers say you would do well not to leave out.
"German employers are used to seeing a photo on a résumé, they can't explicitly demand in the job advert that you put one because that goes against privacy laws," Störr told The Local.
"But they'll be looking for it so always put one. A photo allows potential employers to make a different kind of personal connection with someone and will help them connect your skills with your face when you come to an interview.""
The "Race" sections on government and employee forms always have an opt-out/no-response option. They're not tracking anyone against their will.
It sounds a bit like you're perceiving the world as it should be, rather than as it is. Of course you and I know that "race" is nearly meaningless in terms of actual ability--but as long as there is widespread, systematic discrimination based on skin color, race remains very real in practice. You can't fight that discrimination by passing a law against it and then pretending everything is perfect forever. You need to be able to see where and how racism persists and fight it on the ground, and to do that you need to track the comparative treatment and experience of different people.
They track it to look for unequal hiring practices. Which is an actual and ongoing problem and one the US Federal government is involved with and interested in fighting.
I'd be interested how they classify someone who is mixed between black and white. How about the people who have mixed blood for 3-4 generations and who do not fall in any category anymore ?
The race classification in a country where people move around the whole time should really be depreciated.
This is actually kinda confusing because the various forms never provide any guidance on how to determine what race you are for the purpose of the form. I have a Black[1] grandfather but look either Italian, Hispanic, or Sephardic Jewish. This led to me incorrectly identifying what race I was and mostly being annoyed by the question[2]. For example, when I applied to MIT I agonized over what to put and just decided to check both "white" and "African-American" and call it a day. When graduation was coming up, I got an email about a kente stole ceremony and...felt awkward. Aside from doing this one small not-valuable program with the Office of Minority Education, I didn't really participate in black life at MIT at all. This was also around the time when people were having a bunch of discussions about Treyvon Martin and white privilege and I realized that the things people were talking about the experience of growing up as a black man in America did not match mine at all. Basically, it wasn't until senior year that I realized that I was probably white and had white privilege.
I had some trouble accepting this, as identifying as white felt a bit like a betrayal of my mother and grandfather. So, I started reading a bunch of books like How to be Black, The Souls of Black Folk, and How the Irish became White[3]. I learned some pretty interesting things[4] and accepted that in almost[5] all contexts I am white. if someone (like a friend of mine from Canarsie) says I'm Black, thats fine. But on any sort of form, white is what I put down.
[1] Chromatically about the same as Morgan Freeman. He married a Swede and my mom married an Irish/Polish/German/Dutch/Englishman.
[2] It is plausible that a mixed-race person could put "half-elf" on their census form out of annoyance before learning that doing so is a federal crime...
[3] My strongest actual ethnic identity is Irish. I play the Bodhrán, have been known to jig and sing folk songs, have marched in a clan rally in Co. Longford.
[4] Did you know that 7 out of Homer Plessey's 8 grandparents were white and his legal team had to specifically arrange for him to be arrested and charged with violating the Louisiana railroad segregation statute in order to start the legal challenge that unfortunately led to the "Separate but Equal" ruling?
[5] Exception: watching 12 Years a Slave with my mother.
And really, the Irish shouldn't be expected to change their phrasing because a bunch of fools from Tennessee started a terrorist organization that appropriated the word "clan". Nor should they assume all visitors are from the US.
As long as you track it, you make it matter. That's the point. The observer always has an impact on what is measured. That's a very well know principle.
How would they know? Without tracking race (self-identified or otherwise) as a reference point for other data, countries could have a terrible problem discriminating against people based on the color of their skin and no one would know.
And also levy high taxes on people to support the elderly through social security; the government reduces the ability for individual families to support its own elderly, because everyone's parents are equal.
I see this as a bit of a paradox in the States. There is always some discussion about how everyone should be treated as equal, yet your "race" (whatever that means in the age of genetics!) is recorded by the government, and minorities are tracked by employers even though this is absolutely not related with their skills. If i think too much about it, I'd call it madness.