> The government take 8% or so of my paycheck every pay cycle, and when I retire I'll collect a pension because I paid for it.
You are actually paying for the pensions of current retirees. The expectation for almost all pension schemes is that future taxes will fund your retirement. That's the issue behind the Social Security shortfall and the dramatic cuts in retirement benefits as part of austerity measures post-Great Recession in EU member countries.
> That's a whole different world than paying someone because they don't want to work.
By definition retirees are people who could still be working but choose not to. How about the disabled and the infirm? Those between jobs?
The real issue you seem to have is the "I paid for it" part. Where in the economic cycle is this money extracted? Would you feel better if it came from taxes on corporate revenue? Out of sales tax on luxury yachts?
The issue has been framed by trickle down ideologues as "this money comes from your paycheck!" What is the logic behind getting rid of anything that looks like income guarantees when it comes to you as a worker as opposed to an owner of a business?
>You are actually paying for the pensions of current retirees.
Yes, everyone understands that. But it incurs a debt I will expect to be repaid.
>By definition retirees are people who could still be working but choose not to.
Absolutely. If they paid into the pension system they should be getting a pension. If not they need to rely on their savings.
>How about the disabled and the infirm? Those between jobs?
You're changing the question a bit here. We were talking about people who can work but don't.
>The real issue you seem to have is the "I paid for it" part.
I don't see why you think this is an issue. The money comes out of my paycheck. It's money that I could certainly have saved or used for some other purpose.
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to provide for themselves and their families. And I don't mind helping people who can't do so for reasons beyond their control. But I have no interest in supporting people who don't want to work. I don't want to work either, but I drag my ass out of bed every morning, and I don't appreciate other people helping themselves to the fruits of my labor.
Step 1: Eliminate disincentives to work.
Step 2: More people produce things of value.
Step 3: We have more things of value that can be distributed.
Do you believe that there is no additional productive labor to be done? I.e., it would be completely useless to build more community gardens, fix our "crumbling infrastructure" or provide free daycare for working mothers? (I'm being naughty, by stealing common left wing tropes as examples of things the idle could produce.)
You can do those things I guess. But folks don't want to pay for them. In the end its an efficient market, right?
Clearly we'd all increase our standard of living if folks created more. Its just an equation involving what people are willing to do vs what folks with money will pay. Labor-intensive things have pretty much been priced out of a market. And our service economy means everything involves labor.
Imagine McD's and friends automate the whole store. What do those millions working there for minimum wage do then? Gardening, daycare etc don't pay even that well.
Back up. Currently we pay people to produce nothing. There exist things with positive value. So why not just have the people producing nothing produce those things instead? We can just make it a condition of receiving pay.
You are actually paying for the pensions of current retirees. The expectation for almost all pension schemes is that future taxes will fund your retirement. That's the issue behind the Social Security shortfall and the dramatic cuts in retirement benefits as part of austerity measures post-Great Recession in EU member countries.
> That's a whole different world than paying someone because they don't want to work.
By definition retirees are people who could still be working but choose not to. How about the disabled and the infirm? Those between jobs?
The real issue you seem to have is the "I paid for it" part. Where in the economic cycle is this money extracted? Would you feel better if it came from taxes on corporate revenue? Out of sales tax on luxury yachts?
The issue has been framed by trickle down ideologues as "this money comes from your paycheck!" What is the logic behind getting rid of anything that looks like income guarantees when it comes to you as a worker as opposed to an owner of a business?
How does step 3 follow from step 1? Increased supply of labor is only going to bring your salary down.