I'm loving the whole Nomad theme going around at the moment. Its made me really think about where I want to be and I have a feeling its going to be anywhere and everywhere.
What I haven't seen much of is horror stories on working remotely -- specifically from people traveling around the world. Does anyone have any links?
I'd also be interested in any horror stories - I suspect they mostly don't get written.
What I rarely see (which is part of my vision) is nomads successfully travelling the world with:
1) A Significant other / spouse
2) Children, and/or
3) Assets (eg, a house in their home country they rent out; a business that's worth something because it's more than them) [1]
Most seem to be single people in their 20s / early 30s, who talk of 'living on the road forever'. I fear (but again, this is linked to what I am creating for myself) many wake up one day and realise they have built nothing in their lives - true, the experiences are priceless and may be worth it, but I don't want to discover at 40 that I have no close friends, no family, that even if I knocked someone up tomorrow I'd still be in my 60s when the kids moved out, and while I've lived off $20,000pa for the last 15 years I don't intend to retire into decrepitude in Thailand but have zero net worth put aside to support me.
I guess I hope that comedown for those who experience it doesn't take away from the awesome life they've led for many years. But when they talk of doing it forever, maybe they're not appreciating the moment as much as they could. Maybe I'm just getting old.
There is some selection bias, the people that are busy doing stuff, typically don't write blogs "How to live with 500$ in chiang mai".
to give you some perspective: i've been doing the "nomad thing" for 5 years, although I'm not actively travelling around much, and mostly based in an asian city. All my belongings fits into one suitcase and 2 duffel bags - 80% is clothes. I am earning above 100$/hour coding, typically as remote contractor with the occasional onsite visit, not simple CRUD-stuff, but interesting and challenging work. I usually do full-time contracting with one client exclusively for about 1 year. Two years ago I spent 3 months exclusively on open source work (that itself opened up very attractive work opportunities itself). My living cost is also pretty much the same as back in Europe, but I live a life in luxury here.
Most DNs eventually "settle" down, and stay in one place for a longer period (think months), and everyone seems to have their default city/place, where they often return to because of friends, they like the vibe etc.
What I found was the close friends you have at late 20ies, you won't lose them, when you go back and most probably you will go back at some point.
Re 1: There's quite a few digital nomad couples, or people who find their significant other. 2) Children not so. Re 3: These all exist, but it's not (yet) the majority.
Re: Horror Stories: I have not yet heard of something worthy the title of a horror story, and i am somewhat involved in the digital nomad community.
First one, was a classical onsite job, which i transitioned into a remote thing. Second big one was offline network, there too it started with onsite for a few months, now quite remote. It helped here being nomadic, as employees were already spread out geographically. I had smaller ones in between that i found online, but they were not fulfilling.
Hey. I'm 32 with honestly zero regrets with lifestyle choices right now and checks on all points, though I don't own a business right now (have done) but am part of one that I'm proud of, which I actually prefer. Horror stories are the same everywhere: bureaucracy, backstabbing, corruption, dodgy infrastructure, human and hardware failures. You'd get it in the US as much as anywhere else, just in different measure.
You seem to be implying that people are likely to 'fail' in life by leaving the conventional career path. Remember: life and business are not a continuum, they're alternate perspectives and themes in the same experience that aren't mutually exclusive. In other words: all things in moderation.
As it happens, our family is on a two week beach bum episode (for me this means coding + swimming, for my wife it means variety of food and less hassles, for our young daughter the chance to swim and hear more languages at an age ideal for future cognitive development) in Thailand right now, and as it happens just had a fascinating chat with some decrepitude-avoiding random westerners, one was a fully accredited marine biologist turned career diver (over a decade) and the other ran a pest control business (migrated from fire engineering). With the former I discussed the potential of open ocean aquaculture, and with the latter the paleontology, biology and relative business environment (bureaucracy) between Thailand and mainland China. Try walking 5 minutes down the road in the US and getting conversation like that. While I wouldn't live here full time, plenty of interesting people you shouldn't casually dismiss do.
Finally, don't forget that 'net worth' is worthless if you're too old to enjoy it. If you're the sort of person who insures themselves before travel, religiously pre-books accommodation and consults their doctor-of-decades for potential immunization requirements before crossing a state border, then you could begin with a different kind of trip. A lot of people out here are risk takers that just weren't happy with the status quo. True, some of them fail on economic trajectory, but relative to never having taken a risk they certainly earn my respect.
The grass is always greener. For every person who wakes up one day to realize that they have built nothing in their lives, there's someone else who wonders what they could have accomplished if they hadn't settled down so early. Both of these thoughts are ultimately unproductive. Choose the life that's right for you and enjoy it as much as you can. No one ever looked back and said "I wish I'd spent more time sitting on the fence while trying to decide what to do."
In regards to the first part of your comment, I can't imagine travelling the world with a significant other and children. Perhaps in rare cases for a limited time, but it's hard to imagine that two people would want to participate in that lifestyle for the same length of time. It seems like part of the ethos of "travel" is a certain kind of freedom. Part of starting a family is responsibility, which is the opposite of freedom. Maybe the travelling family lifestyle will become more common as the world becomes more interconnected through technology, but that seems like that could still be awhile away.
Best of luck in your pursuit of the ideal life for you.
> while I've lived off $20,000pa for the last 15 years I don't intend to retire into decrepitude in Thailand but have zero net worth put aside to support me.
You make a very good point. I'm highly biased as I'm doing it myself, but what I see from the people around me doing it is that most are not "bums".
Instead they're able to reduce their costs aggressively, that helps them spend time building startups/businesses and have a longer runway to do that until it becomes profit generating. The next step is growing and building more of those businesses. Many people I know generate $10-25k/m. You're right I know just as many that generate $500/m. But most of them are just starting. Most people are able to generate substantial revenue after awhile.
The next step for many is to invest in real estate in emerging markets. They rent it out or AirBnB it to foreigners. Then at 60, they're probably better off with more cash, more equity, than if they'd stayed in a place with high costs (e.g. US/EU right now). Most people in EU/US are simply unable to save money due to the rising costs of live (mostly rent and food).
I don't like how this is portrayed as the "this solves everything"-lifestyle. It doesn't at all. But if you take advantage of the cost thing, it can be beneficial.
> I don't want to discover at 40 that I have no close friends, no family,
That's also a great point. I feel the same and the only way we could be able to fix this is if this becomes more mainstream and you have friends doing it too, and make lots of new friends that are doing it. Technology also helps a lot (e.g. simple stuff like WhatsApp) to stay in touch. And most of these nomads are flying around every 3 months, so they do stay in touch with their close friends.
I'm excited to see where this goes, there's definitely many social challenges to solve.
There are many different kinds of nomads, and not all of them want to travel forever. For me, the perfect solution would be to find (or found) a moderately-sized community of like-minded folks out in the world somewhere. Travel isn't the end goal for my life; it's to find a place where I would ultimately feel a great sense of contentment living. And if the place is close enough to a more urban area, or if the community has enough incoming and outgoing members to always have a crop of fresh people in the mix, then I think it'll be possible to form meaningful friendships, relationships, and even families while doing it.
But yes: at 26, I'm certainly starting to see the seeds of a lifetime of loneliness if I were to spend all my time on the road, especially as many of my friends are starting to get married and have kids. Due to my personality, I've discovered that the best way for me to make friends is to spend some time living with them. Unfortunately, that's hard when you're moving from city to city every month.
> 3) Assets (eg, a house in their home country they rent out;
I know a guy who used to do exactly that. He had a house in San Antonio that he would rent individual bedrooms out of. Provided him with enough income to travel on, so long as he kept costs down. After a few years the neighborhood got fed up with it, and bugged the HOA until they changed the rules specifically so he couldn't do that.
Accustomed to traveling and not working, not wanting to settle down, he sold the house. Now he does just enough to get by, bouncing around the Americas with occasional sojourns to Europe.
If a person is autotelic and takes enjoyment not from materialistic things, do you think they would have the same feeling? If money isn't important?
Wouldn't you meet loads of people on the road so you'd have loads of friends around the world-ish?
I feel the type of person who could be a nomad, these normal social factors are less important? So they may be unlikely to wake up to these realisations.
I'm glad there are plenty of people here giving their positive views of making their own path. I left the US on and off for several years before I made it stick and realized I'd likely not be returning to the States (other than a quick visit here or there), no matter where I decide to live/move around. So far, so good.
I've lived tons of different situations, with extremely poor people, some who were rich, and others, middle class. I've lived in the countryside, the big city, the burbs, on the beach, in the mountains, and in the middle of nowhere. I've paid high prices, low prices and no price to live where I have. Once, I went through all of this within the same big city. Sure, during these years living abroad I've mostly done the '$500 thing' (and mostly, not by choice) but it's amazing what kind of experiences you can have on a shoestring and at this point I wouldn't trade it.
>What I rarely see is nomads successfully travelling the world with: 1) A Significant other / spouse 2) Children, and/or 3) Assets
Welcome to the world of boating!
I lived 10 years of my youth on a sailboat with my family, and in our travels, we met many other boating families that also met all your points. Some may think it's not the easiest lifestyle, but to many others it's the dream come true. I, for one, am thankful for the wonderful upbringing that it means for me.
A couple from around here chose an RV instead; they've been traveling for a few years now, with their daughter.
How do you handle their education? I heard the couple stopped moving so much to allow the daughter to frequent a school with more stability. Are yours homeschooled instead?
I don't know if this qualifies as "horror", but I think it's a pretty good description of some of the negatives. I was sort of semi-nomadic for a while and I definitely recognize those feelings.
Thank you for that link. It was enlightening in ways I didn't expect. For example, I had no idea that airbnb was so broken:
"You'll notice that nearly all the reviews of places to stay on AirBnB are positive. Why? Because if you post a negative review, the host is likely to post a negative review about you in retaliation. And once you have a negative review as a guest, nobody will rent to you."
Not sure whether it was different in the beginning, but nowadays, reviews are only displayed after both parties have submitted theirs - or once the 14 day window for submitting reviews has expired.
Yes — this has fortunately been fixed. I still have the problem where if the hosts are really nice but the place isn't great, I don't want to leave a bad review and shut down their operation. As a result, I mostly leave reviews when the stay was amazing in some way.
That's a very accurate article. One downside that he didn't mention, which is actually the same as one of his upsides, is that you're always a visitor — especially if you have the Schengen problem like he described. It's hard to feel comfortable, acclimated, at home, when you change cities so often. Now I take particular relish in coming back to places I've been before, and I hope I can find an easy way to attain residency in Europe so I don't have to do the UK-Schengen-Balkans thing every 3 months.
What I haven't seen much of is horror stories on working remotely -- specifically from people traveling around the world. Does anyone have any links?