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Am I the only one that associates loud noise with a weak engine?

To me a powerful car just has an acceleration whine, and that's all.

It's like a rocket exhaust: the "wilder" it is the weaker it is. A powerful, well tuned, rocket has a very sharp, and clean (i.e. not noisy) flame.

Same with a car - if it's making a lot of noise, it's poorly tuned or designed.



I know very little about cars and have little interest in them, but I suspect that any desirable attributes of an engine or car can be measured directly. If I were buying a car with those attributes as a goal, I would look for statistics taken from direct measurements, which I presume exist in plenty on car enthusiast websites and magazines.

I would guess that, given any level of performance, there are well-designed cars that vary greatly in the amount and character of the sound they produce, especially since the advent of electric vehicles.


Nope. A tiny 1.0L 3-cylinder engine will be loud all over and make a horrible whine as it accelerates. That's weak. You hear the engine "scream" without doing much. While a large 5.0L V8 makes a pleasant hum while accelerating hard(almost like the rocket whizz you described - it's powerful but controlled), and is virtually silent while idling. That's what I associate with power.


> Am I the only one that associates loud noise with a weak engine?

Evidently you haven't been to a top fuel drag race!

Most definitely, the more power, the more noise. Top fuel is so loud it is like being punched in the chest.


A top fuel racer is very loud because they have short, per-cylinder exhaust pipes and are powered by nitromethanol ("top fuel"), which burns so slowly that the fuel is still exploding when exiting the exhaust pipes.

They are also ridiculously inefficient.


They're very efficient if you measure efficiency in terms of HP for engine weight, which is about all that matters in drag racing :)


Well sure, that's why they use nitromethanol (which is worse in kJ/kg than gasoline, but it contains an oxidizer) and ridiculous engines.

But "efficiency" in the context of engines usually means energy conversion efficiency. And power-to-weight ratio is what you mean.


Sure, but power and efficiency are different things!


A muffler restricts the exhaust and will lead to decreased power from the engine, even for properly tuned engines. Removing the muffler will remove the restriction in the exhaust and undo the power decrease, and also increase the noise.


This is not strictly true. Some engines work better with back-pressure, and removing or altering the exhaust without re-tuning usually loses power: http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/exhaust_road_perf.html


I can attest to that, my old Saab performed terribly (performance and fuel economy) during the time I was running around with a pierced and corroded exhaust mid-section flexi-joint.


>Same with a car - if it's making a lot of noise, it's poorly tuned or designed.

Easily disproved. F1 cars produce about 600 horsepower, are extremely performant, and are loud as fuck.


Since 2014, F1 cars have a turbo charger and a single exhaust pipe in a very clever hybrid drive system with two electric motor-generator units. In case you didn't follow F1 last year, there was a lot of complaints about the lack of noise.

The noise coming out of the exhaust pipe is wasted energy. In previous years, this wasted energy was utilized by putting the exhaust pipes to blow the diffuser, creating more aerodynamic downforce.

The 2014 F1 cars consume a lot less fuel (fuel tank is 100 liters vs. 190 liters in 2013), with very little loss in actual performance.


F1 cars... are loud as fuck.

Formula one's new V6 engines are so quiet that they caused a lot of controversy when first introduced:

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/06/17/f1-spectators-say-new-...


Oh really? That's hilarious.

The only race I've been to was in the early 2000's so it was a different engine back then.


3 Litre V10 or 12 oh yes quite different. Long gone are those sounds. Down to 1.6L v6 now is something like what 20% of that displacement? Still nearly as powerful.


You're probably not alone, but I don't think that opinion is popular, either. The reason why many people associate loud engines with powerful (IC) engines is because powerful engines, such as those found in racing cars, are loud. Often very loud. It's also not possible to make them quiet without sacrificing performance.

If you meant to say that you don't think much of IC engines in general, you could've just called them inefficient and be done with it.


Bigger engines are noisier because more "explosions happen inside" (to simplify). A bigger engine isn't necessarily more powerful than a smaller one, but it's a hint.


It's not just you. It's also other people who don't have much experience with engine performance. Quieter mufflers restrict more airflow, something you don't want to do when you're trying to pass more fuel through a small engine.


I have plenty of experience with engine performance, and s/he was absolutely correct. An overly loud engine is is opening its valves too early or closing too late, and it can only be made quieter by restrictive mufflers. More modern and efficient engine designs, enabled by technologies such as variable valve timing, are quieter out of the valves because they convert more energy into motion instead of sound. Being quieter, they also have less pressure, and are less affected by muffler restrictiveness. Straight pipes might make a 1969 charger more powerful, but the effect on a modern V8 like the BMW N63 is negligible.


The most dramatic example is VTEC, especially before variable cam phasing.


Every joule which goes into making noise is a joule which isn't being used to make the machinery go.


The energy lost to sound is minimal, and often there simply isn't an economic way to prevent those losses without reducing performance.



Tuned exhaust are only "in tune" at a particular rev range where the resonant frequency of the exhaust manifold is in sync with the engine combustion cycles. They're not widely used outside of racing applications, because a road vehicle has relatively wider rev range than a racing machine. And they're ridiculously loud.

A vintage Cosworth DFV racing engine only "works" at 7000-9000 rpm (or 8000-10000 rpm for later models), a pre-turbo 2000s F1 car runs at 11000-15000 rpm to about 14000-20000 rpm (before rev limits were enforced). It's a really narrow band compared to a road car that can run from 1000-6000 rpm, ie. is useful on the entire rev range.

All modern engines have well engineered exhaust manifolds, though, but they're not really "resonance charged" like a tuned racing exhaust.




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