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There's a lot of bad information here on Berlin. For context, I'm a non-EU software developer that lives in Berlin and now has permanent residence, as is my girlfriend.

Germany is actually one of the easiest countries to get an immigrant work visa for. I would recommend skipping seeking asylum. There's a large enough job market in Berlin for developers that the work visa route will almost certainly be the fastest and least painful for you.

If you have a university degree, you should be able to get a Blue Card. In fact, Germany will give you a 6 month visa to visit the country and look for a job. Since you're already working remotely, finding money to support yourself during that time should not be difficult.

The salary requirement that others list here is incorrect for software developers. The typical Blue Card minimum required salary is €46,400/year, however, software development is an in-demand job ("Mangelberuf"), which lowers the minimum to €39,192/year, which is above the standard salary that you'd find for development positions at Berlin startups.

If you go the Blue Card route, you'll be eligible for permanent residence in 3 years.

If you don't have a university degree, you're still in pretty good shape. Then, in practice, what you need is a job offer (with a contract). Your residence permit, prior to getting permanent residence, will be connected to your specific job at a specific company (though in practice this just means you have to go to the foreigner's office to apply for a new visa when you change jobs). This was the old system that I went through (before the Blue Card was introduced, which my girlfriend used). Basically if you have a job offer and a reasonable salary, you're next to guaranteed to be able to get a work permit. I've never heard of a software developer having their request denied.

However, that system is not nearly as streamlined, so you actually usually need to already be in Berlin to apply for it. I would recommend finding any excuse you can to come to Berlin on a visitors' visa (language course, conference, whatever) and stay as long as you can. I think you'd be able to find a job and kick off the work permit stuff in a 2 month timeframe.

Going that route you're able to apply for permanent residence after 5 years, though it's a slightly nicer version of permanent residence than the one you get via the Blue Card route since it's transferable to all EU countries except the UK and Ireland.

Official things in Germany will naturally be mostly in German, but the startup scene functions primarily in English. It's totally normal for job interviews and work meetings / emails / etc. to be in English.

If you have questions on this stuff feel free to drop me a line. My email address is in my profile.



> I would recommend skipping seeking asylum.

+1. You were probably just using the wrong term, that may also be why your Google search did not turn up anything. Asylum is only for political refugees. These are not allowed to work, need to live in provided (usually very bad) residences, their children are not allowed to go to school, etc.


> These are not allowed to work, need to live in provided (usually very bad) residences, their children are not allowed to go to school, etc.

What's the point of taking in an asylum-seeker only to treat them like crap?

Yay! We've saved them from torture or death in their home country, but instead we'll just make sure to keep them uneducated and in below the poverty line?


You satisfy your minimum treaty requirements so that they can't sue you in court, then you get to curry favor with your xenophobic nativist demographic by calling the asylees parasites.

/cynic


The restrictions don't apply once the request for political asylum is granted, but that is a lengthy beaurocratic process.


"The Point" is to get rid off them as soon as they have another place to go.


its not as easy as you picture it, especially for Syrians.

I wanted to send my sister (Syrian) to continue her education in medicine, the German embassy in Syria completely rejected the application.

I tried in Dubai, they asked me to open a bank account for her in Germany, all banks refused to do so. I had eventually to find workarounds (through some powerful friends) and I was able finally to open that account in Wiesbaden.

Now my sister has an official residency visa and she went to open an account in Berlin, but again all banks rejected her request because she is Syrian.

Racism can be really ugly.


It's not at all surprising for me that the German embassy in Syria is swamped at the moment and that makes things more difficult.

However, things are pretty different when you're applying as a student vs. applying as a software developer. There's going to be a lot more scrutiny of the financial situation of a potential student from a country in crisis than for a skilled worker with a job offer. German politics have shifted in recent years because of a labor shortage to where, at least officially, there's a lot of support for qualified workers to move here.

Now, that doesn't mean that there's no racism, but while I don't have any Syrian friends here, I do have a handful of friends from Iran and I've not heard of them having problems at all with things like setting up bank accounts or managing official stuff.


There are a ton of embargoes and sanctions against Syria from both the US and the EU.

Don't assume racism when the problem is government.


That's true in the case of USA, ex: you can never get a credit card processor to accept your application, source forge/google code/ google apps are entirely blocked etc ..

We tried to make a change by starting this :

http://www.change.org/petitions/united-states-government-lif...

in the case of Germany I think Government are not the bad people here, they have actually tried to make it easier for Syrian. but most the people who work at embassies / banks etc .. make it impossible for Syrians abroad to reach Germany.

I have friends who managed to get their visas after filing lawsuits against those embassies, but those who only have german friends/relatives who understand and know the German law.


http://www.sanctionswiki.org/Syria#EU

That's a big legal minefield to deal with just to sign up some small accounts from individuals.


I think it's important to note that these are two very different examples. The OP is specifically discussing the experience and approach for a skilled worker in a job search situation where a country is actively seeking that type of worker. That's entirely different to wanting to move somewhere for further your education in a highly competitive field like medicine.


I wonder if she tried GLS Bank? They style themselves as a fair/alternative bank only investing in ethically good things. Lot's of people I know moved their bank account there. It would be interesting to hear if they reject to give bank accounts to people in need. Although perhaps there is something in German law that prevents banks from doing that?

https://www.gls.de/privatkunden/

There are a couple of other banks with a similar public agenda, but I don't recall their names.


Did they give a reason (that she was Syrian)?


Yes, they would initially say all is okay. once she pulls the Syrian passport they say: Sorry, we can't open the account.

if any one is in berlin and can guide me to a bank that won't mind opening an account for a Syrian citizen, I would really appreciate it.

Sadly, this was not the only case we encounter, you can read about a similar story happened to my family here :

http://nidalalhariri.com/post/55999109847/airbnb-racism-how-...


Are you sure the issue is racism and not due to sanctions that a US based company has to follow (and possibly may not be well defined)?


in that case, doesn't a genuine customer at least deserve an explanation ?

especially that the account was verified and active for weeks, with a valid credit card and all supporting documents (passport etc ..)

I got rejected many times from paypal, 2co, rackspace etc .. but they used to explain the reasons like "we can't deal with syrian citizens" or "you are from a sanctioned country" etc ..

maybe I shouldn't call it racism, But I'm not a native english speaker, and I don't know what should it be called when you are treated differently for being accidentally born in a different region.


They don't know whether you are some regular person just trying to live your life, or some supporter of the sanctioned regime trying to protect ill-gotten gains by moving them out of the country. Unfortunately the latter is a frequent occurrence in military conflicts. The problem is that they don't really have the cultural or social context to judge which sort of Syrian person you are.

The best idea I can come up with offhand is consider a closer but wealthier and more stable country as an intermediate destination, such as Turkey or Dubai, but I realize that's not very helpful.


It's less risky to not to provide an explanation than provide the one that will blow up in your face in court.


Yes indeed ! that's exactly what I think it is.


I'm not German, but I know from experience how many will not call you back if you just have a foreign sounding name. I really thought banks would be different though, I guess there must be many Syrian people in Germany and they all need bank accounts. I would guess that there are some organization for immigrants or even some for Syrian immigrants in Germany, and they could probably help you out with some recommendations.


Don't worry, racism goes both ways.


I'm guessing that you (like me) come from one of exactly 7 countries whose citizens have the privilege of being able to apply for a work visa from within Germany while here on a tourist visa (or, more commonly, a visa-waiver). I can assure you that Syria is most definitely not on that list, and that almost everyone in the world is actually required to obtain a work visa in their home country.


I am. My girlfriend is not. We both got our visas in Germany. (Her case, however, was slightly different than the norm since she went from an academic work visa for post-docs, to a Blue Card, to permanent residence.)

A Syrian would certainly need a visa to enter Germany in general. I believe that you're incorrect as to whether or not, given a valid visa to enter the country, a Syrian citizen would be able to apply for a further visa from within the country.

For reference, this is the actual law that I was referring to which provides for highly qualified foreigners to get a visa to look for work in Germany for six months:

http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthg_2004/__18c.html

I believe the only point in question is if a Syrian would be able to apply for that from within Germany with a valid visitors' visa, or if they'd need to apply for that from outside of Germany.


I believe zb is correct. I'm also a Blue Card holder living in Berlin, and as a US citizen, I was able to enter Germany on a tourist visa and then apply for the Blue Card from here. However, a friend of mine from the Philippines was in a very similar situation (got a job offer while he was here on a tourist visa) and he had to return home to apply for the Blue Card, since the Philippines are not on that short list of exempted countries. Your girlfriend's case was indeed different, since she wasn't trying to convert from a tourist visa.

Here are a couple of resources on the matter:

http://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/working/guide-to-workin...

Particularly the three paragraphs starting with "You must apply for your visa in your home country before travelling to Germany."

https://www.daad.de/deutschland/nach-deutschland/bewerbung/e...

Starting around "Important! If you enter the country without a visa or with a Schengen visa..." (This site's aimed towards students, but I believe the info on entering the country is still applicable here.)

In the OP's specific case (especially considering the fact that the German embassy in Syria is currently closed), I would definitely recommend contacting an immigration lawyer in Germany before entering the country. It's possible that there are other options or exceptions that I'm not aware of.

EDIT: Just noticed that those two links have slightly different lists of exempted countries. The daad.de link might just be out of date, because the following official site also lists only seven countries: http://www.berlin.de/labo/auslaender/dienstleistungen/bes_st...


- software development is an in-demand job ("Mangelberuf")

- €39,192/year [...] is above the standard salary that you'd find for development positions at Berlin startups

Are you sure about that? Somehow these two statement don't sound like they can go together, I think. Wouldn't that be a ridiculously low salary for a European capital, even for startups?


Salaries are pretty low compared to the US. 50-75k euros for developers is pretty common (even in Scandinavia).

On the other hand living costs in berlin are much lower compared to other cities in europe (even compared to other cities in germany).

However, I cannot confirm the minimum wages required by a job under blue card. AFAIR, the blue card covers a broad spectrum of jobs and the wage listed above probably take diverse industries into account.


Are these numbers before, or after taxes?


before taxes.

Taxes in europe are very situation specific (married/single, mortgage, car/bus/work-from-home, public-health insurance, pension, unemployment). I guess this is also country specific inside the EU. For example, in Finland, we do not have progressive tax (or so I am made to believe).


Ridiculously low? €40k? US$52k? That's quite a good deal I guess, and living costs in Berlin are like 1/4 of NYC for example.

What salary did you expect?


I think he probably made a typo and meant to write "below" instead of "above".


Oh, I see. Thanks, I didn't get that.


I have saved enough to live 1-2 years. But how long it takes to get Blue card? I do have an Uni degree and how much I can expect with my around 2.5 years experience. Some of the Berlin startup contacted with me regarding my expectation, as why asking you.

Thanks.


The tricky thing is probably going to be that I expect the German embassy in Syria is totally swamped. If you can get a visitors' visa for Germany, it would probably be easier to apply for it in person here.

When applying in Germany, if everything goes well, you can get a Blue Card with two trips to the foreigners' office -- one to apply and another to pick it up a few weeks later.

Presumably you'd be able to get the visa to seek work pending a Blue Card with a single visit to the foreigners' office.

Salaries are much lower than the US in Berlin, where the range is roughly €35k-75k. With your experience I'd expect you to be in the €40-55k range here.


The Germain embassy in Syria has closed long time ago. the closest alternative now to seek the German embassy in Beirut (Lebanon) or Dubai (UAE)

in Beirut, it is extremely difficult if not impossible, the media reported cases where they hit people with a whip on borders: http://bit.ly/17ohTMP

for Dubai you chances are either:

1. a visit visa (need a good job and a letter from your employer)

2. Student visa (need around 8000 Euros in a German bank account - no bank will give you that, especially from outside germany)


This route is very unlikely, considering that virtually everybody knows about the current situation in Syria. It may make him look suspicious, at best.


Are there any work permits needed for EU citizens? I'm planning on trying the Berlin startup scene this year.

Thanks,


No. EU citizens can work everywhere in the EU, especially as a software dev.




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