I recommend reading the whole thing. The snippet that pulled me in was the perfect comparison to Community:
"There’s a saying which made its rounds in geekdom recently – “Real nerds watch Community”. Now I take issue with the idea of “real nerds” but the sentiment still stands. Whereas The Big Bang Theory sees nerd culture as an object of ridicule, Community celebrates it. Community’s laughing with you whereas Big Bang is giving you a wedgie and laughing at you. When TBBT makes a pop culture reference it uses it as a punchline, it names a show like Firefly and asks you to laugh at it. When Community makes a pop culture reference it commits. Community makes a whole episode based on a trope or a genre, it doesn’t just use paintball as a plot device it takes paintball seriously and bases two season finales around epic battles of paint. Community doesn’t laugh at the idea of playing D&D it bases an episode on it. Parallels can be drawn between the characters of Sheldon in Big Bang and Abed in Community. Abed too has trouble reading sarcasm and emotion, he has obsessions with routine and structure as well and disruptions in routine cause him considerable distress. Abed sees everything in terms of television and film tropes. This is how he understands the world around him and how he figures out how best to react. Unlike Sheldon, it is often confirmed that Abed does have mental difficulties, most likely Asperger’s Syndrome. But, crucially, the main difference between Sheldon and Abed is that Abed is treated as a hero. In the pilot episode Jeff Winger, arguably the most conventionally “cool” member of the group says this: “Abed is a shaman. You ask for bread and Abed gives you soup because soup is better. Abed is better”. In one episode Abed is literally treated as a god. Yes, his neuroses do at times inconvenience the rest of the group but his belief that they see him as a nuisance is dismissed as his own insecurity rather than the truth. Community positions us, its audience, as Abed. It knows that we are knowledgeable about the things we love, it knows that we understand tropes and genre conventions, it gives us the benefit of the doubt and treats us as intelligent human beings who will not only understand the meta pop culture references, but will find them funny and love the show for it. Community tells us it’s cool to be a nerd. If Abed is better then we are better. Community is a warm hug of acceptance whereas The Big Bang Theory is a pantsing and a punch in the face."
The author obviously feels humiliated by the show. What annoyed me about this post is how much time the author spends on pointing out how "cruel" TBBT is treating him and his fellow nerds.
At one point I even got angry how sensitive he is. People make fun of geeks, get over it.
I am under the impression that he wrote himself in some kind of rage and lost track of realism after a while.
TBBT is not supposed to defend geeks / nerds it's supposed to make the majority of people laugh and it succeeds.
His points are valid but his sentiment is over the top.
That's interesting. I surely am a geek (I'm a programmer, I do tabletop rpgs and computer games, and I know a lot of bizarre trivia), but I never noticed that BBT was laughing at me.
I never before heard of Community, I'll try it so I have some comparison.
Geeks like Community because it requires use of your brain and rewards you for having knowledge. This is a typical joke, never explained in the episode, which would be over the head of most viewers:
Isn't that true of TBBT? One joke I always remember is Sheldon telling Leonard that he shouldn't become romantically involved with a particular woman, because "her research methods are sloppy and she's unreasonably arrogant about loop quantum gravity". Most viewers probably haven't even heard of loop quantum gravity, and yet for the joke to be funny you have to understand Sheldon's occupation as a "classical" string theorist, and that loop quantum gravity is a competing theory that is supposed to supplant string theory, and around that time was being touted as the hot new thing.
Which is a bit more rewarding than a German not knowing the word 'schadenfreude'.
>Most viewers probably haven't even heard of loop quantum gravity, and yet for the joke to be funny you have to understand Sheldon's occupation as a "classical" string theorist, and that loop quantum gravity is a competing theory that is supposed to supplant string theory, and around that time was being touted as the hot new thing.
Most people who watch the show do not understand that. They still laugh at the "joke". You don't need that understanding, the joke to most people is simply "haha, the nerd won't date a girl because of some nerd thing she likes". There is a difference between making a joke based on something "nerdy" and merely making a reference to something "nerdy". TBBT does the latter.
>Please explain how the original statement that you responded to above is incorrect.
I quoted it in my response, it is easy to see: "yet for the joke to be funny you have to understand". That is false. The vast majority of the audience do not understand that at all, and yet find it to be funny. The fact that one of the writers slipped in a deeper meaning does not mean the joke requires that understanding, and thus does not support the notion that the show is targeted to people who possess that understanding.
I'd argue that Community is just a pop-culture reference show. That "knowledge" you seem so proud of is only useful for watching shows like Community (and maybe doing the crossword).
So nerds only like shows that cater to their superiority complex and idolize every aspect of their existence?
That sure sounds a lot like the superficial, narcissistic plebeians from whom nerds constantly strive to differentiate themselves. Not to worry, though, I'm sure they're all smart enough to detect the overwhelming irony.
TBBT makes fun of being a nerd (or a geek) at the expense of nerds and geeks. The audience is never the nerd or geek themself; it's everyone else. TBBT does not intend for you to emphathise with the nerds, they are there for your enjoyment. Essentially, TBBT makes nerds into the new samba blacks.
There is nothing smart about the jokes; the punchline (and frequently, the entire joke) is usually [something vaguely nerdy sounding that most people don't know]. Basically, TBBT just randomly says "quantom superstring theory" and you are expected to laugh at it because the phrase sounds ridiculous; there usually isn't any more context to it than the utterance of the nerdy-sounding thing.
In contrast, Community takes the concept and builds into something substantial. They'll take "quantum superstring theory" and, for example, turn it into an episode where the vibrations of silly string perfectly predict events going on elsewhere on campus.
BBT has a UCLA processor on staff as a fact-checker who fills in the realistic science parts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Saltzberg -- when interviewed he said his fellow scientists were at first wary of the show but then wildly enthusiastic after actually seeing the first season.
Mayiam Bialik (a minor but recurring character) holds a PhD in neuroscience (taken after playing Blossom so many years ago) and there's been quite a show of renowned scientists as guest stars (at last two Nobel prize recipients, Hawkings and George Smoot). I think they'd disagree with with your dismissal of the scientists portrayed as "new samba blacks".
On the 5-season Bluray set they show how the show is taped -- I think it took 4 hours to get the 25ish minutes done, all in front of a live studio audience, and an incredibly engaged one. In the breaks the interview some of the audience -- one was a female rocket scientist from Texas.
I personally found "Community" rather dull, and far less engaging than other in the new wave of non-laughtrack comedies/mockumentaries a la CYE, Modern Family, Veep, Parks & Recreation and Arrested Development.
I think there's a mile long road between "being ridiculed" and "having their egos stroked." The nature of their discomfort has more to do with respect, or the lack of it.
But what the guy is saying is that Community doesn't just stop the ridicule. It swings the pendulum to the other extreme. And this is applauded by the target audience.
That is an eloquent explanation. However I recognize parts of my character in all the characters in TBBT, and I enjoy it for that exact reason! I am fully aware that I am laughing at myself. If somebody else wants to laugh at me too, go ahead.
That's why the show is so popular. It's not taboo to admit you play WoW or consider yourself a 'geek' these days. The moniker has been appropriated and means many different things now.
However nothing about being a geek is considered normal by popular opinion. If there was no geek shaming going on then inviting someone you just met out to a game of D&D on Friday night would be as normal and banal as going down to the pub for a drink or catching the new Seth Rogan flick. However it's not and as someone who enjoys the role-playing hobby, I am careful to get to know someone first before I ask them to join us on a quest to slay the terrible wizard, Mordrak.
Instead of using satire to say anything interesting about why that is, TBBT just exploits these social norms. It's about as hilarious as any other Chuck Lorre show these days. The same formula is used for Two and a Half Men and is equally as vapid in my mind.
So when I do watch an episode of TBBT, I don't really identify with any of the characters and feel like I am being laughed at for the most part. The jokes are predictable and not funny for me. These kinds of shows are typically the most fun for the people who are not being made fun of.
Shows like Community, Journey Quest, and movies like Dorkness Rising are funny. They pander to the sub-culture I most identify with and lack any condescending stereotypes. I can laugh at myself in these sorts of contexts because they're written from a perspective that is sympathetic and jovial. It makes fun of the stereotypes in our own sub-culture without laughing at them because they're weird and unconventional and not like us, the people doing the laughing.
> We aren’t laughing with Leonard, Sheldon, Raj and Howard. We’re laughing at them.
And what would be a sitcom where this is not the case? Let's take one of the tamest and more humane sitcoms, the Cosby Show. Even in this case, you are more often than not laughing at the characters (to be specific, at certain quirks in their personality), not with them.
Community is aimed at nerds to let them laugh at highly dysfunctional but lovable characters. The characters themselves aren't nerds. In contrast, TBBT lets normal people laugh at nerds.
I never said that one is bad and the other is good. I'm just trying to explain why nerds frequently prefer Community over The Big Bang Theory, when superficially The Big Bang Theory appears to be a show for nerds.
I can, which is why the IT Crowd was funny. TBBT doesn't contain caricatures of me, it contains caricatures of what someone who knows nothing about me thinks I am. Such a caricature does not resonate with me, so there is no appeal.
"When The Big Bang Theory first aired there weren’t many nerds on mainstream TV, at least besides the character with the glasses and braces in the background on a teen drama. Before TBBT, nerds were the characters the protagonists avoided, the ones with the crushes on the blonde cheerleader lead, or the person the popular ensemble helped out to show that they were nice."
Am I the only one who remembers Numb3rs? That show treated Charlie (one of the two leads, a math professor) with respect, at least in the episodes I saw. His supporting cast in the math and physics departments was excellent as well.
Hell, there's an episode where he actually teaches a class, on-screen, on the Monty Hall problem:
Real math nerds fondly recall -- and search for on YouTube -- old episodes of Mathnet, the cop show that made up the last 1/3 to 1/2 of PBS's Square One TV.
Yes, it's for kids, and the math that's there focuses on basic things like prime numbers and Fibonacci sequence. But it's brilliant, laced with humor, and you're likely to see more actual math being done in one 10-minute episode of Mathnet than in a season of Numb3rs.
Numb3rs was cool, for a while. But they exhausted their good ideas for "solving crimes with math" before the first half of season 1.
The time I gave up was when Charlie announced he could use math to figure out the time the crime took place based on long the block of ice had been melting, which he could calculate based on ambient pressure and temperature and surface area and lots of extra things they made up. Or they could just look it up in a book.
I agree, although having Season 1 on DVD, I'd say they managed to do a decent amount of math in almost every episode of it (even if it doesn't always solve the crime). Then my wife and I bought Season 2 and were quite disappointed.
That said, in the episodes I've seen, Charlie is almost always treated as an important contributor by the other characters. His work is glamorized and treated with respect by the writing and production staff. He's awkward, but treated like a human.
Doesn't anyone see the irony here? TBBT makes a lot of jokes about how vociferously nerds will argue over their chosen entertainment. This entire thread is basically playing out a TBBT punchline about TBBT punchlines.
It's not a nerd vs. cool people thing, it's just a mature thing: acting superior because your chosen 30 minute tv comedy is better than another one is pointless.
Elitism over entertainment is ridiculous on its face.
Community is just a string of pop-culture references. I don't find it funny, but then again I also don't spend hours on TV tropes either.
I found Arrested Development mediocre as well, and a lot of people claimed it was the funniest thing since sliced bread.
By the way, BBT is a mediocre show too. Which is why it is so amazing to see people arguing against it like it is worse than Hitler.
I watch BBT. I don't take it that seriously. It is a fine way to waste 20 minutes, and has low re-watch value. Just like tons of other shows (Family Guy, Friends, HIMYM, etc).
I'd rather have neither in the end. It seems strange to watch a show about characters one self is. Hell, I'd rather watch Police Squad! or - yes - How I Met Your Mother.
I actually like Arrested Development, so yes, I have. But I am sort of weary about American television programmes anyway. Call me odd, but I actually watch The West Wing on repeat non-stop.
This attitude is, secondly, the other incorrect attitude to view TBBT with, given that it also makes fun of every other stereotype depicted on the show! Penny's mocked for being dumb and dating dumb "jock" types, Walowitz's mother is mocked for being Jewish, Raj's accent is almost a mockery of itself sometimes (the actor doesn't sound like that IRL) - that's where the show draws humor from, for better or for worse. Nerds are in the crosshairs because that's the setting of the show, but every other stereotype is right there too.
http://butmyopinionisright.tumblr.com/post/31079561065/the-p...
I recommend reading the whole thing. The snippet that pulled me in was the perfect comparison to Community:
"There’s a saying which made its rounds in geekdom recently – “Real nerds watch Community”. Now I take issue with the idea of “real nerds” but the sentiment still stands. Whereas The Big Bang Theory sees nerd culture as an object of ridicule, Community celebrates it. Community’s laughing with you whereas Big Bang is giving you a wedgie and laughing at you. When TBBT makes a pop culture reference it uses it as a punchline, it names a show like Firefly and asks you to laugh at it. When Community makes a pop culture reference it commits. Community makes a whole episode based on a trope or a genre, it doesn’t just use paintball as a plot device it takes paintball seriously and bases two season finales around epic battles of paint. Community doesn’t laugh at the idea of playing D&D it bases an episode on it. Parallels can be drawn between the characters of Sheldon in Big Bang and Abed in Community. Abed too has trouble reading sarcasm and emotion, he has obsessions with routine and structure as well and disruptions in routine cause him considerable distress. Abed sees everything in terms of television and film tropes. This is how he understands the world around him and how he figures out how best to react. Unlike Sheldon, it is often confirmed that Abed does have mental difficulties, most likely Asperger’s Syndrome. But, crucially, the main difference between Sheldon and Abed is that Abed is treated as a hero. In the pilot episode Jeff Winger, arguably the most conventionally “cool” member of the group says this: “Abed is a shaman. You ask for bread and Abed gives you soup because soup is better. Abed is better”. In one episode Abed is literally treated as a god. Yes, his neuroses do at times inconvenience the rest of the group but his belief that they see him as a nuisance is dismissed as his own insecurity rather than the truth. Community positions us, its audience, as Abed. It knows that we are knowledgeable about the things we love, it knows that we understand tropes and genre conventions, it gives us the benefit of the doubt and treats us as intelligent human beings who will not only understand the meta pop culture references, but will find them funny and love the show for it. Community tells us it’s cool to be a nerd. If Abed is better then we are better. Community is a warm hug of acceptance whereas The Big Bang Theory is a pantsing and a punch in the face."