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Liquid platinum at room temperature: possible revolution in industrial chemistry (phys.org)
228 points by PaulHoule on June 7, 2022 | hide | past | favorite | 72 comments


One really tricky part of this is going to be that gallium alloys or otherwise attacks a LOT of metals including aluminum and steel. Still should be fine in glass or maybe there is a passivation trick that can prevent gallium attacking the surfaces.

Otherwise platinum on carbon (and now platinum/gallium alloy) can do lots of useful reactions mostly hydrogenations.


It was a fun experiment showing my kids what some leftover Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut did to a soda can.


Don't get that anywhere near your wedding ring!


I put some gallium on my aluminum car engine


No more engine.


Pt/C and Pd/C can also do super neat hydrogen rearrangements. Fascinating catalysts. Though they like to catch fire when in contact with air, annoyingly.


It also oxidizes really fast. Any time you see liquid gallium in a video it develops a nasty sticky crust very fast.


> Surprisingly, it's actually the gallium that does the work of driving the desired chemical reaction, acting under the influence of platinum atoms in close proximity.

> Exciton Science Associate Investigator Dr. Andrew Christofferson of RMIT explained how novel these results are: "The platinum is actually a little bit below the surface and it's activating the gallium atoms around it. So the magic is happening on the gallium under the influence of platinum.

This is interesting and makes me wonder what other sorts of materials could act as more efficient catalysts when modified by the presence of small amounts of platinum. Could you, for instance, deposit a sparse layer of platinum covered by an atomic level thickness of some other material in the solid phase and achieve catalysis with the cheaper coating?


It makes me wonder about other impurities. If platinum can have one effect, maybe another can have the opposite.

Was this especially pure gallium? 99.99% is purer than you normally expect when you buy an ingot from the metal supplier, although the usual impurities are considered mostly harmless. (I.e. aluminum won't have any gallium.)

Unfortunately Sci-hub didn't have the paper, when I checked.


Interesting. I don't have access to the full text of the paper, but I'm surprised the platinum-doped gallium doesn't form a protective oxide shell, like pure gallium does. Perhaps this depends on having very small particles? Or does the platinum just stabilize the surface chemistry against oxidation?


I'd be very surprised if it didn't oxidize quickly.


Don't tell the homeopathic crowd about this. A tiny amount a potent expensive substance encouraging a change in behavior in a much larger quantity of a cheap substance would be like catnip to them.


The tiniest amount of encouragement, diluted to any degree, is all they need. The more dilution, the more they take.


That’s the trick.

1. Mix a tiny amount of echinacea into gallium

2. Drink

3. Medical bills are gone forever because you are dead


...and start deluding gallium with water :D


Nuts. There goes my catalytic converter "recycling" business.


Is one possible application much cheaper catalytic converters?


"the one that needed to be around 10% expensive platinum to work"


Could this make fuel cells common place? Is platinum the main cost driver?


Well it’s a liquid. My understanding of fuel cells is they need an ionic exchange membrane that the hydrogen nuclei pass through while the electrons do some work in a circuit to the other side. At the very least this gives us an idea of how being better able to search quantum interactions/“scenes” just might make a lot of technological impossible s suddenly possible.


The real question:

Does it have military applications?


Catalytic converters, so the tanks will pollute less.


Could we bubble the hydrogen through the liquid?


What’s going to push the electrons anywhere?


Warning, I’m talking about stuff I know way too little about:

So I wonder whether being liquid makes this less helpful in a fuel cell. If I understand fuel cell chemistry enough, platinum would be on either side of the actual proton exchange membrane to form the anode and cathode. I see a liquid being problematic in that scenario as it would slosh around instead of making a circuit.

More helpful would be some sort of solid state of platinum (preferably something cheaper) on either side that conducted the electrons away to the poles.

But this definitely shows there’s interesting stuff to be found with these methods. Might just someday find that perfect fuel cell material.


for fuel cells not really, for the electrolysis part (ie generation of hydrogen) it could be interesting


Isn't electrolysis already readily served using traditional alkaline electrolyzers? At the very least there you have the tremendous advantage of needing zero rare materials; pretty much any developed country can manufacture their own alkaline electrolyzers.


The title should say "platinum dissolved in liquid gallium".


Or even "trace platinum dissolved in liquid gallium". The solubility at "room temp" (40 ˚C is quite hot for a room) is only about ~50 ppm. It's kind of like calling sea water "room-temperature liquid sodium chloride".


Whinging about titles gets taken a little far here sometimes. From the article:

“But without the platinum there, it doesn't happen. This is completely different from any other catalysis anyone has shown, that I'm aware of. And this is something that can only have been shown through the modeling."

Likening this to sea water leaves a lot to be desired.


> This is completely different from any other catalysis anyone has shown, that I'm aware of

The part right before that is much more interesting. I quote

  >> The platinum is actually a little bit below the surface and it's activating the gallium atoms around it. So the magic is happening on the gallium under the influence of platinum.
So the gallium is doing the catalysis, but only when a platinum atom is somewhere around the gallium - spooky action at a distance stuff.

With Gallium doing the work, that explains "why we need so little platinum" detail.

Actual paper here - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41557-022-00965-6

The specific catalysis they're doing is "electrochemical methanol oxidation", so I assume this is a direct Methanol fuel cell catalyst.


Hopefully, someone is trying this in a LENR cell.


Yes, especially because the notable part is that the liquid mixture is acting as a catalyst in the same way that the solid platinum was.

"It's kind of like calling sea water "room-temperature liquid sodium chloride"." It would be extremely impressive if you could make sodium chloride thousands of times more potent by dissolving it in water.


Oh, no.

“Precious metal homeopathy”


It’s human nature that condemns us to these nerd anatomy measuring exercises. I’ve personally long since accepted that.

But in theory it could be a competition to build up, rather than tear down, things that most commenters don’t know jack shit about anyways.

C’est la vie.


It's not just the title:

> When combined with gallium, the platinum becomes soluble. In other words, it melts,

That's not what that word means, and the audience for this article probably knows the difference between "melt" and "dissolve". They could just describe the research as it actually is instead of trying to make it sound like something more amazing to get clicks.


> the audience for this article probably knows the difference between "melt" and "dissolve”

Not if they watched The Wizard of Oz as children.


40°C in that regard is room temperature


Gallium makes alloys with quite a few metals that are liquid at room temperature. This stuff is used as a replacement for mercury in thermometers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galinstan


D’oh, I might be a bit disillusioned by headlines of reporting on superconductor research - my initial reaction to the headline’s „at room temperature“ was „At which pressure?“


My exact initial thought.


and it's gallium, known to dissolve a lot of other metals as well. Copper and stainless steel are no go - for gallium alloys are even more corrosive (than pure Ga). Nickel is likely ok - I suppose the properties of the Ga/Pt are rather unknown.


TLDR

Mixing platinum with gallium lets you get some of the desirable catalyst properties of platinum; with less platinum and as a liquid at lower temperatures; i.e much cheaper.


And by "less platinum" they mean 0.01% as much platinum to achieve the same level of catalyzation.


I'm a complete novice at such things, so pardon the dumb question.

Is gallium significantly cheaper than platinum?


Gallium is produced from the waste streams of Aluminum production (primarily at least), and a whole lot of it just isn't extracted and left as waste.

Platinum is quite a lot more valuable than gold, found in similar deposits, and rather rare. (you could say it is also produced from gold production waste streams and be mostly correct, it used to just be discarded long ago, but now it is very highly valued)


I'm not familiar with how pricing precious metals works, but it looks like, as of this moment, gold is priced about 2x more than platinum[1]! Presumably these prices have quite a bit of variability, and gold and platinum switch places sometimes? (Although your main point about gallium being _way_ cheaper than gold/platinum holds for sure.)

[1] https://www.suissegold.eu/en/charts/platinum


Ah, hm, updated knowledge. From about 1999 to 2008 platinum traded at about twice the price of gold. They were roughly equal until 2015 then gold started trading about double the price of platinum.

Platinum has quite a few industrial uses, gold is getting more attention as a store of value lately, probably lots of other more complex market forces going on as well.


Another neat point for gallium is that it's fairly non-toxic, easy to get, and a ton of fun to play with. You can melt it with your hands!


Yes, ludicrously so, platinum is one of the most expensive metals.

Edit: For actual values (per gram), Gallium ~0.50 USD, Platinum ~33.22 USD


yes like 60-70times cheaper


“To create an effective catalyst, the researchers needed to use a ratio of less than 0.0001 platinum to gallium. And most remarkably of all, the resulting system proved to be over 1,000 times more efficient than its solid-state rival […] Using advanced computational chemistry and modeling, their colleagues at RMIT, led by Professor Salvy Russo, were able to identify that the platinum never becomes solid, right down to the level of individual atoms. […] "They were always separated by gallium atoms. There is no solid platinum forming in this system." […] Surprisingly, it's actually the gallium that does the work of driving the desired chemical reaction, acting under the influence of platinum atoms in close proximity.”

Oh dear Lord, maybe the homeopathic cranks have been on to something all along!


My naïve take is liquid phase is higher energy than solid phase. The gallium here actually keeps the little amount of platinum liquid by diluting those platinum atoms into gallium-surrounding the platinum so it can’t solidify. Thus the catalytic effects are more like a liquid platinum catalyst than solid. Neat trick that probably wasn’t obvious outside of new methods.

Edit-also note, this may be more like alchemy. They’re seeing the atoms on the surface performing the catalytic effect but the platinum resides below the surface. So the nearby platinum atoms are making the gallium mimic platinum properties.


Check out silicon doping.

> When on the order of one dopant atom is added per 100 million atoms, the doping is said to be low or light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_(semiconductor)


While super impressive, you basically need to do this dilution again and again for homeopathy (at which point it would be CH12).


Can't help but think of Tim Minchin's "Storm".


Fancy that.


In solid state chemistry, hemeopathy is actually true.


Do they drink Gallium?


yes, but first the dilute it with water until there's no gallium left.


Given that Gallium is basically non-toxic and so is platinum, it probably wouldn't be the end of the world unless you chugged like a pint?


What would be the different effects on the human body of drinking 10g vs 100g vs 1000g (ml) of platinum or gallium?


> 1000g (ml)

Water has a density of 1 g/mL, most other fluids we ingest are close, but gallium weighs 5g per milliliter and platinum over 20 g/ml.

In purely mechanical considerations, 1000 ml of platinum would weigh 21.4 kg or almost 50 lbs. I'm not a doctor, but I imagine the stomach is not able to hold that much weight!


There are accounts of people drinking mercury (13.5 g/mL) to feel it sloshing around in their stomach.


Apparently a lethal dose is somewhere around 140g because it reacts with stomach acid to form gallium trichloride which is poisonous:

https://yesdirt.com/is-gallium-toxic/

Some compounds of it may have medical uses, though: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2898053/

That said, people have swallowed even crazier things, like when they used to use mercury (!!!) as a laxative:

https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/following-lewi...


If it is Platinum you go bankrupt.


But that only affects your body if you're made of money.


Quantum chemistry isn't well understood enough to definitely prove certain homeopathic right or wrong.

The people assuming it was all cranks and snake oil, were ironically also assuming things without justifications. Though likely most of it is cranks and snake oil.


for homeopaths that's not enough, they begin at 0,00000000001


I just hope they can figure out how to suspend it in worthless bits of gold.


Time to get some self sealing stem bolts.


You misspelled "Latinum".




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