Before anyone reads this and decides, "oh ya the NYT is lying to me and gas is fine", it's not. Gas in your home is objectively bad for your health, the environment and is overall worse than induction when it comes to the cooking experience in just about all ways.
That being said, It might not be as bad as living with a smoker (as the NYT asserted) but it is bad for you. The YouTuber Climate Town did an excellent video on gas cooking which exposed some very nasty truths of the gas lobbyists and the negative health effects it has on the population.
would love to see an induction stove with a usable UI. everything I have used is designed by a person that never had to cook for more than 1. the automatic off during the slightest spill, and the impossibility to operate buttons with wet/greasy hands, has to be one of the biggest design mistakes in the history of engineering.
my idea of a great time is to invite this engineer to cook with me a 4 course dinner for 8, where everything is timing crucial, and I get to scream at them like Gordon Ramsey the minute the stove switches off and they lost momentum with the heat but can't operate the button because "wet fingers".
the problem isn't induction and consumers cooking with gas, but that we have a culture operating on "ownership and exploitation" of the environment.
I like induction stoves. Easier to clean, and do 90% of what I need doing in a kitchen. Not having to run gas lines is a plus, and for the other 10%, I'm probably working on a grill or using a dedicated burner anyway.
But the UIs are awful.
Stop turning yourself off. Yes, I do intend to cook the thing I put on you for six hours. Just fucking do it.
Give me a knob. Gas stoves use knobs for good reasons. You don't need to invent new UX, just give me a motherfucking knob. A knob without complicated family issues is fine as well.
My stove does not need Bluetooth or WiFi. It's a stove. I expect it to work with minor maintenance for 40+ years. Protocols are going to change a lot between here and there.
I am not installing your app. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever. Baphomet will call up and tell me he got right with Jesus before I install your app.
There has to be a market for people that want appliances that just... work.
Addendum: there are a few induction stoves with knobs, but they are definitely the exception, rather than the rule:
I'm redoing my kitchen (in the US) with induction and ruled out anything with touch controls. I noticed that particular issue as soon as I stepped into the showroom. Thanks for letting me know about the auto-off problem.
The other problem to watch out for is poor reliability due to gradual "cooking" of the circuit board -- after all, the knobs are not physically connected to the power electronics; they're just a digital input to a controller, same as for the touch controlled units.
Other options with knobs were from Miele, Fischer and Paykel, and (less expensively) LG. I believe Samsung also sells a range with knobs; see the photo in the article.
If you're not spilling, you're not cooking hard enough. :)
Gas does provide easier temperature regulation, as the change is (a) instantaneous; and (b) infinitely fine-grained compared to the average "levels" of an induction stove.
A good gas burner also puts out a more consistent heat pattern, as opposed to the "ring of burning" that is common to most induction cooktops.
But for most things, induction is good enough, and I appreciate the day-to-day versatility of "just wipe it down".
> would love to see an induction stove with a usable UI.
I bought an AEG stove last year (similar to [1], but an older model I think). Physical knobs for temperature control, no auto off on spills. Touch interface only for a few convenience features and the extra power mode, which is fine by me. I'm very happy with this stove and like cooking with it just as much as I liked gas when I had it a few years ago.
I use a plug-in 13A unit. It's great for most kinds of cooking - the only time I prefer the performance of my actual stove (a coils-under-glass electric unit) is when I'm boiling water or want a gradual warm-up to low temp. For everything else (searing, stir-fry, deep-fry, steaming), the plug-in induction hob provides better control IMO
The fan and high-pitched pan noise is not my favorite though.
That looks really nice - I might consider that one if I'm switching away from gas later this year
How is it for keeping a constant, low-mid temperature? One of the issues I have with induction is that the heat is applied in bursts rather than as a constant with gas
This means that when frying with some oils, induction will either heat them past their smoke point in the burst or the temperature will be too low in-between bursts
Mine does it in bursts I think (it's fairly obvious when cooking rice, as the water bubbles up periodically), but I've never had a problem with that. I can say that I don't have smoke problems with olive oil, which I believe is one that shouldn't be used with high temperatures.
That said, I'm probably an ok cook at best and I don't eat meat so I can't really say how it would work with that. However, I found that at least the gas range I used when I lived in the UK, wasn't really great for low temperatures either, as the flame tended to not self-sustain properly on low settings.
The killer feature for me personally was actually the steambake thing, as I bake bread weekly. It's not quite as good as directly spraying water into the oven, but still works really well. Obviously independent of the induction top though.
Olive oil has indeed been one of the problematic ones for me - to be fair, it might simply come down to my inexperience cooking with induction
I think I will get some additional cast iron cookware when I make the switch. Hopefully it'll be able to retain the heat better between bursts and make the average temperature more stable :-)
I appreciate that you took the time to answer my question. Hope you have a pleasant day
cast iron is seriously under-rated. they're a tiny bit harder to clean, but they're nonstick without giving you cancer, and you can get them really hot without damaging them.
This is correct. Plus they last for generations ... try that with a coated nonstick pan.
Also, and this might just be me, but they are fun to use because they require a bit of skill to use. This is like how it can be more fun to drive a standard car than an automatic-shift one.
This, then, is a limitation of your induction unit. Mine has two modes: Heating, and Temperature. In temperature mode, the cycling you describe occurs. For this reason I almost never use temperature mode. In heating mode, I get the most consistent rice ever (for me, I'm not a cook, just someone who likes rice). Making pancakes in a cast-iron pan, I find myself occasionally switching between 3 and 3.5 on the heating settings -- these are arbitrary numbers assigned by the manufacturer -- to keep the cast iron at the desired heat. It's trivial. I suppose I should try the temperature setting for this -- unlike making rice in a sauce pan, the cast iron probably would probably compensate for the intermittent heating of temperature mode.
My unit is just single-hob portable induction cooker from Duxtop: 15 heat settings -- think of it like continuous power settings -- and I think? about 10 (cycling) temperature settings.
I'm quite optimistic that a high-end unit such as the one used in the Asian restaurant mentioned in the article would hold constant temps without the annoying recycling -- and believe me, I find the on/off business just as annoying as you find it.
I look forward to a time when I have the room for a full-sized induction cooktop. I think that with a decent induction disk (I think I'll just buy a 3/32" disc of mild steel and avoid the laminated units sold commercially, or even just repurpose a crepe pan) I'll be able to do things like Spanish eggs, where just a portion of the pan must be kept heated.
One thing I've found is that egg pans (small saute pans) with just the right slope for flipping eggs are not easy to find in induction-compatible pans. But I did find one pretty close to perfect, and an induction disc will take allow reuse of my favorite non-induction egg pan.
I'm really sold on induction. It's not best for everything, but I can live with its shortcomings while enjoying its advantages.
I replaced ".de" with ".com" hoping it would then work internationally/display the information in English, but yeah it seems AEG doesn't have a US presence. That's a shame.
It doesn't really matter much as I mainly linked it as an example, but I experimented a bit with the countries and the specific model isn't on the UK site either (they have other ones with knobs there though). If you want to see the one I linked you can choose "Germany" in the "Choose your Country" page and click "Hausgeräte" (top left) followed by "Standherde" and "Standherde" again (what a weird navigation). In the filters select "Kochfeldart > Induktion". It was the first result left.
> would love to see an induction stove with a usable UI.
To me, induction with physical knobs and buttons would be the best. Other than the stupid touch things, induction is just so much better than gas for almost anything.
It does have auto off on spills, but it's not overly sensitive and only triggers if you really let things boil over. Had it 9 months, can highly recommend this cooker.
For us the “one flat surface” is about cleaning instead of aesthetics. We cook all the time and out range constantly has crap spilled on it. Being able to wipe it down in a quick pass is so nice.
That is another big advantage of induction. It gets much less dirty because it’s so easy to wipe clean each time it is used.
That said, it is not necessarily exclusive, we can have a nice flat surface along with a panel with physical knobs on the side. Even with a minimalist look à la Dieter Rams if needed.
My Miele induction cooktop is physical buttons/knobs and has no auto offs. Honestly, I was confused by all of the replies with complaints about induction UI's because it's the first induction cooktop I've owned and it's been a joy. I couldn't go back to gas.
And that is so unbelievably stupid! The flat surface for your pans is already infinitely better than on a gas stove. I want knobs and be able to quickly dial the heat up or down on the burners. I do not really care if I still have to clean the knobs now and then. And I want non-discrete settings. And I do not need the device to beep loudly if I change from '5' to '9' every time I press a button
Induction cookers must have been designed by the same person who designed the door opening and closing mechanism on Virgin train toilets.
For those who haven't experienced that particular abomination, they had sliding quadrant doors and separate buttons for locking and unlocking the doors as opening and closing the door. Originally the colour of the lights around the buttons was the only clue to the state of the lock (I think these have been redesigned). This resulted in the unintended comedy of someone sat down to do the toilet as the next person came along, pressed the door open button and slowly unveiled the person doing their business to the whole carriage of people. Inevitably resulting in a mashing of buttons from both sides trying to get the door to close again.
I've been cooking with induction for a few years. My hardware isn't fancy. I have owned a few countertop units, a format that meets my needs. The model I own now is a robust commercial version, 1800W. Works great with pans up to ~11in diameter (bottom).
UI is typical: buttons to set "heat" and "temp", plus on/off and timer. Good part is than buttons activate mechanical momentary contact switches that have a really solid "clicky" feel.
Overall it's a real pleasure to use, but it has its quirks. The biggest "issue" (not really a gigantic flaw) is the ambiguous controls re: heat and temp. Nominally the heat setting controls wattage, temp supposedly sets limits on temp erature of food. It's just very inconsistent, like setting temp to 160 degrees F doesn't have much to do with actual temperature as measured with a thermometer. But I've gotten used to how it works and very rarely overcook or burn stuff.
In the past I preferred gas, but that's not my first choice now.
What kind of induction stove do you have? Mine just has knobs. I push down and turn them clockwise, physically, and it heats up. I push down and turn them counter-clockwise, it lessens the heat, or turns it off.
It's the same as the gas stoves of my childhood; I'm not sure how it could be simpler. It even has the icons indicating which knob is for which burner. Is your stove postmodern?
Most induction stoves have touch based inputs. They're awful.
I used to have one of those, now I have one with knobs. Couldn't be happier about the change.
We should not accept any health claims without quantification. "Objectively bad for your health" is not particularly relevant, even if I accept that at face value. For example, in right-hand-drive countries, making left turns is "objectively worse" for your health than making right turns.
Even with quantification, you may still want to do it anyway. If I remember the numbers correctly, eating a bacon sandwich everyday increases your risk of dying from heart disease by 25% - that takes the risk in the UK from 4/10000 to 5/10000. ^ Given the second number, I don’t worry about having the odd bacon sandwich. The exact example is irrelevant, rather everything in life has pros and cons, risks and rewards - you have to choose which one works for you. (I write this as an induction hob convert :) )
^ This is based on a vague memory of a lecture on Risk Communication from Prof David Spiegelhalter around 10 years ago.
> If I remember the numbers correctly, eating a bacon sandwich everyday increases your risk of dying from heart disease by 25% - that takes the risk in the UK from 4/10000 to 5/10000. ^ Given the second number, I don’t worry about having the odd bacon sandwich.
The way to stay alive is to reduce a little here and a little there (unless you work as an amatuer bomb technician). Heart disease is a leading cause of death; a 25% improvement would be great. There's not any real relationship between "a bacon sandwich everyday" and "the odd bacon sandwich"; where does anyone talk about the latter?
The host Rollie Williams has a graduate degree in climate change, maybe his style isn't for everyone but he's clearly knowledge and passionate about the subject.
Joking aside, I'm glad he is making these videos in that case. However, I'd say the target audience is teenagers so maybe it's not the best suited for this forum?
Damn, I didn't knew that at 36 years old I was still a teenagers!?
I knew North-American loved to class people by age group, but this is becoming silly.
The NY Times has and talks to many people who are as well or more qualified. Look at the sources in their articles - not just graduate degrees, but leading experts with decades of experience.
> is overall worse than induction when it comes to the cooking experience in just about all ways.
The way you would know this to be true is when professional kitchens are defaulting to induction instead of gas. (I think this has started to happen in a few high end places, which is exciting)
I am putting in a new kitchen soon and it will have a gas hob + electric oven because I love cooking and gas is my default. Every electric hob I have ever used has been garbage, and I am not dropping 2 grand to try induction and maybe discover what sound like familiar issues (ha, I am turning myself off now).
Gas always just works. Apply steady heat - perfect cooking experience. Maybe next time.
Get a standalone induction plate. They're cheap and portable and they let you try it out without a huge expense. I do 90% of all my cooking on a single induction plate I paid ~$60 for. Non-induction electric hobs are trash, and induction is much closer to gas, but more controllable, less messy, and less dangerous. That said, I would strongly recommend against a builtin induction hob. They're expensive as fuck, and eat lots of counter space. The standalone induction plates are amazing, much nicer to work with, and cheaper, and you can put them away when you need the extra space. Restaurant supply shops have standalone induction plates for ~3x the cost of the consumer ones which are phenomenally good, that's what the higher end new kitchens are going for.
> They're expensive as fuck, and eat lots of counter space.
I am comfortable with the latter at least, as my default would be a 5 ring gas hob! I cannot imagine cooking with fewer than 3 rings. (Say, duck breast, mash, veg is a pretty basic meal)
> Get a standalone induction plate. They're cheap and portable and they let you try it out without a huge expense.
That is actually a good shout, and not something I had considered. Am currently "camping" kitchen'd in the utility room with a microwave and a 2 ring camping gas stove. Will have a gander, Thanks :)
You're not always allowed to put them into electric sockets and turn them on all at once, though. There's usually special electric wiring done to handle the load of electric stoves.
In the US, at least, the standard is to have outlets every 4' (I think), and have the outlets alternate circuits. So, you plug into two adjacent outlets (not the same two in the same box, but adjacent boxes) and you'll be on different circuits.
I think it is for kitchens, and it is relatively new. My 25 year old refinished kitchen has the outlets, but not the separate circuits. No nespresso + toast.
> The way you would know this to be true is when professional kitchens are defaulting to induction instead of gas.
That is not how you would know that. There are plenty of industries where people stick to the "tried and true" (for various reasons, some of which might even be reasonable) and chose to neglect efficiency gains or long term health of either their employees or customers.
Hence highlighting that we have seen some of this already!
Side note. The high end ones move first as they discover something better. See the proliferation of technological machines in modern professional kitchens. But the trend gets set and the upper mid range starts to follow and then it will be what chefs want to use because it is best.
In my experience induction is wildly worse than gas for the cooking experience in just about every way. I'm very surprised to see the opposite suggested.
It's slower, less flexible, makes some styles of sauce making impossible, and probably worst of all - invisible.
Has there been some quantum leap in induction cooking I haven't experienced?
I have had asthma since I was a toddler. I see a top-rated immunologist 3 times a year. Not once have they ever asked what kind of stove I have. When I asked about it recently, they laughed about it.
Eh. Gas is not “objectively bad” unless you want to also say cars are “objectively bad”. How many people die every year from from short or long term effects of gas stoves? Compare that to cars.
Every kitchen I’ve ever been in with a gas stove has some sort of ventilation. Open window, fan, hood, etc.
Same for the environment. Let’s look at older style electric coil resistant heat elements. Largely inefficient and the power generated how?
Here’s the difference: bad publications happen but when they’re discovered that leads to retractions and other professional consequences. For example, Andrew Wakefield did get a bad paper into The Lancet but it was retracted and he’s now a former doctor.
You can't trust anyone completely, not even one's Mom. But you can trust some people a lot more than others. If I have cancer, I trust my doctor a lot more than random people on Youtube.
You should be well aware then that doctors are educated by sales reps from companies who have been caught time and time again in spreading false information to doctors. Good luck.
Oh. And more than half of published studies that are used to approve drugs cant be replicated. Oops ?
I know those things! And it doesn't disagree with my GP statement:
> doctors are educated by sales reps ...
That statement goes to the heart of it: "doctors" aren't educated by sales reps, different doctors are and to different degrees. You can trust different doctors to different degrees, and there is a very wide range - some are highly trustworthy, some the opposite. And you never know for sure and all you can do is observe and apply your best judgment. That's true for everyone, including Moms.
One thing I can observe is that doctors obtain MDs, and I've rarely encountered doctors who didn't have deep expertise in medicine, and I know some about how much study is done at medical schools. I can't be absolutely sure, but that's a strong signal that they know far more than I do.
Saying 'you can't trust anyone' is as serious and reasonable as saying 'you can trust everyone'. The world just isn't that simple, but finding who to trust is almost the most important skill.
Do you know what isn't bad for your health? Good, clean healthy home-cooked food. Which, in millions of homes, is cooked swiftly and efficiently on gas ranges.
Politicians and their media lackeys in the media need to stop trying to micro-manage peoples' lives.
The entire world, in general, aspires to rapidly move away from hydrocarbons. To me, that consideration alone would justify the inequality in (B) when you can afford the choice. Other considerations are a nice bonus.
We're already seeing this play out with municipal regulations deemphasizing gas stoves in new construction.
- people with gas stoves need to know the risks to mitigate them. Like paying attention to ventilation, or really ventilate as soon as they put on the stove. All the more so if they don’t have the means or the right to replace their stoves: they’re probably also more vulnerable to health related fees.
- there has been so much advertisement of gas as “fine” that it needs a lot if counterbalance. People are still buying gas stove for new homes for bullshit reasons.
I am a big fan of electrification but an induction range to replace my glasstop is on the order of $3-4,000 (and not in stock anywhere anyway) so I can't blame anyone for sticking with an old reliable gas range.
That's not quite right. In Europe three phase wiring is delivered via a 5 core wire: 3 phases, neutral and earth (ground). You can take any phase wire, and the voltage between that and neutral will be 230V. For higher power devices, the voltage between any two phases will be 400V.
My induction hob can be connected to 1 phase or 3 phase power, there's a dip switch on the back to switch it over. I'd imagine inside it changes the voltage and frequency to something completely different depending on what power level you set the burner to, so the actual supply voltage isn't that important.
I haven't been in houses in all European countries, but I've seen both. I think a range is cheaper (one appliance, one electrical connection), so you find it in cheaper apartments, cheap rentals etc. It might also be the only reasonable option if the kitchen is small.
A separate oven and hob usually means the oven isn't at knee height, which is much nicer. Decent apartments and houses in Europe have this, but so does my relative's million dollar house in the US.
Yes, I have one of these $50 portable cooktops and it works OK but still takes forever to boil water. The expensive ones are actually as good as gas and I was pricing out the freestanding stove+oven, thanks for backing me up xD
I use $30 single pot induction stove everyday. I cook for 3 people. It’s placed on top of old school electric one with spiral elements since we live in a rental. Sometimes I use both, but it’s my go to.
I spent a year and a bit raging at the electric hob in my rented flat every time I cooked something. Replaced it with dual ring plug in induction hob and it’s better in every way, I’m actually able to cook food in a controlled manner again rather than endlessly pulling pans on and off the hob to compensate for a lack of power control.
dunno about the US but in india we use these. converted to US$, its like $18. they last about 2-5 years with good usage and if you are really unlucky with your spillovers and frayed cables, maybe less but other than that these things are reliable as fuck..
why do you have to buy thousands of dollars worth of equipment?
I have one of these and it's good for a portable unit but it takes about 10 minutes to boil water, whereas a high end unit will do it in a fraction of the time. I was also looking at replacing the entire stove, not just a burner, so something like this:
you do understand the boiling of water and basically everything done on an induction cooker is dependent on the energy needed? this one is at 1800W 220V so your high end machine might be 3x or 5x that.
I don’t know where you live but we literally just did this yesterday – we picked a modest $1,300 unit, but there were multiple options at most price points in stock at most stores here in the DC area. I don’t know if there are specific features or brands you require but it doesn’t seem like there’s a massive supply issue or one specific to induction hardware.
Our old induction cooker cost us €600 more than a decade ago. It’s our old one only because we moved and the kitchen in our new flat had a gas one and we’d need to rip all apart and rebuild to remove it. But otherwise we used it for 11 years without any issue, so I would call that reliable.
That being said, It might not be as bad as living with a smoker (as the NYT asserted) but it is bad for you. The YouTuber Climate Town did an excellent video on gas cooking which exposed some very nasty truths of the gas lobbyists and the negative health effects it has on the population.
Citations are in the description: https://youtu.be/hX2aZUav-54