What kind of arguments you've been using? Are you talking specifically about the DA chips or the black boxes containing them? I pretty much can agree with you regarding the digital side of things, but could the actual appliances have notable differences in their analogue side or configuration? Maybe the actual value of having a $400 DAC appliance (built around a $2 Wolfson DAC chip) is going around problems in a computer's noisy or badly pre-amplified integrated audio output.
I don't mean to question your expertise on the subject, I'm just after an explanation what are the exact reasons why the setups with separate DAC and amp boxes have made me find new musical instruments on my audio files. And of course it would be nice to know if there is an inexpensive way of getting the analogue signal to a good amplifier without somehow ruining it.
I fully agree that an external USB DAC can have a much better output quality than the motherboard output that can be influenced by interference; I have an external DAC myself, but I bought it for about $50 (list price was $200 in a hi-fi store, I ordered it from a small reseller).
Not talking about the $400 box with $5 parts in it, but about common sense (plus some physics and math) in understanding what a DAC does and does not.
Not an audiophile myself (well, not that kind of audiophile, but with some passion for the music), I cannot provide good and trusty advice to others, but a digital-out (very common) to an amplifier with a digital-in (very common) is a very simple and cheap way to do it; I am not aware of a cheap way to get very good quality analogue signal out of a PC, for example, as add-on sound cards are very rare these days and very good audio on motherboard is fairly restrictive, but the digital path is wide open. Coax or optical out is the cheapest, a DAC is the next, but the difference between a $50 DAC and a $500 DAC is negligible.
I do agree. I think it has to do with the fact that most motherboards have pretty terrible analog audio support. Every motherboard I've ever had has sounded meh compared to a cheap USB DAC.
It would be super interesting to compare an iPhone analog vs iPhone with a DAC.
I guess you'd have to use an old iPhone with an audio jack though :(
Even the motherboards have gotten better over time. I recall being over at a friend's house in the early 2000's and he was saying, "my speakers are so bad, I guess I need new ones" and I said, "wait, try plugging those into a different source", which we had in the form of another friend's laptop. The audio immediately went from tin can quality to reasonably transparent. The issue was with the cheap DAC in his computer.
But I usually go with onboard sound these days. I did get a FiiO E10K when I got new headphones recently, but I've put it away even though the sound is noticably smoother and less compressed-sounding than my onboard sound - it's another cable and associated hassle.
The reason to go for pricier stuff in my mind is to get more I/O. Good audio interfaces for recording can run you hundreds, and you're paying there mostly for having more channels and some recording features. There's more of an expectation of getting what you paid for.
Spend a lot of money on object —> Expect difference that doesn't exist —> Listen for this difference —> Careful listening reveals previously unnoticed nuance —> Revelation is attributed to new object.
to an extent, it's often part of the ~value of new devices too. your new computer seems so much better when most people have zero idea if it is or where it is.
I don't mean to question your expertise on the subject, I'm just after an explanation what are the exact reasons why the setups with separate DAC and amp boxes have made me find new musical instruments on my audio files. And of course it would be nice to know if there is an inexpensive way of getting the analogue signal to a good amplifier without somehow ruining it.